Tags
baby sign, child care, cloth diapers, daycare, jobs, parenting
Well, our anniversary was a fiasco.
I was stressed out from another day of visiting daycares and fruitless job searching. The mix-cd I had carefully compiled for PH wouldn’t burn. I ran late trying to get the gift to burn and ended up running around like a chicken with my head cut off, trying to gather stuff for the sitter, and totally forgot a bunch of stuff.
So I picked PH up from work late, anxious, frustrated, and with no present in hand and worse, with no sleepy suit or sea horse for the sitter.
PH had clearly had a bad day at work. He didn’t want to talk about it. My stress levels were through the roof. I didn’t want to talk about it. We kept accidentally ticking each other off and having to apologize.
The movie was awful (Mr. Popper’s Penguins. It had some good lines and was cute enough that I could almost have forgiven it for having nothing in common with the book… except for the repeated penguin-poop joke scenes. I observed to PH that some guy must have gone home at the end of a long work day day and when his wife asked him what he had done that day, he would have said “I created CGI poop gushing out of a CGI penguin’s cloaca.”) and when we got back to our friend’s house we learned that Babby had been screaming pretty much the whole time and had refused to eat or even drink his milk.
They were hanging out with him outside because he didn’t scream outside.
All in all? It turns out that weekday anniversary celebrations leave much to be desired. So we’re going to try again on the weekend.
Now, as for daycare, I think I have some good news… but I want to hear your opinion.
Daycare Three
Distance: three minute drive from my house. The closest yet.
Caretakers: One, a fiftyish Persian (of course) lady who was a teacher back in Iran. Her English is mediocre (much better than my Farsi, of course).
Details: $40/day (she was vague about full-time rates). Lunch and snacks provided. The kids were sitting at a table snacking on crackers when I arrived, staring at Dora the Explorer on a strategically placed TV.
She has a website which had a clear gentle-discipline policy posted, and that promotes learning. She says that she has her ECE and teaches the kids the alphabet, their numbers, and uses a map of the world to teach them their countries.
There is a contract, and for a deposit she would “hold” the space for me.
One baby, one full time kid and several part time kids.
The daycare is relatively new, and has only had one inspection since being licensed, which came up with the following violations:
| Code | Category/Description |
|---|---|
| 203 | Hygiene & Communicable Disease Control “Sanitation or housekeeping” does not meet requirements.  |
| 204 | Physical Facility, Equipment & Furnishings “Storage practices of hazardous materials” does not meet requirements. |
I liked:
Friendly, warm lady who gushed over Babby and whisked him over to the kids to say “look who will be coming!” She held him the whole time and took him around the room to investigate everything he pointed at.
Formal anti-hitting discipline policy.
I didn’t like:
Not only do they get TV, they get it twice a day – during snack time. The lady informed me that that was “all” because too much TV wasn’t good for them and she liked to teach them. Unfortunately, twice a day is still two times more often than I am comfortable with. Not so much for the kids, but the fact that the baby was sitting there staring at it too bothered me.
She was very pushy – she tried to get me to hand her a deposit to hold the space for her. Since I was still all like “oh hell no” about the TV, I politely declined, saying I would call if I wanted the space held.
She was more negative about the cloth diapers than the first two workers. Like them, she had very much a “but WHY?” attitude, but while they had seemed to shrug it off once I assured them that there would be no extra work involved, she seemed less comfortable with the idea.
I was disappointed by this daycare, because I had found the website very promising. I am also finding it very stressful to meet and connect with all of these women, knowing that I will end up rejecting most of them. I hate this sort of thing – meet them, talk to them, make friends, and then either never fulfill my promise to call them, or call and formally reject them. I hate having to pick someone, and I hate that I have to let the majority of these nice people down.
—
So it was with a heavy heart that I headed out to Daycare 4, which I had found by a fluke. It wasn’t listed on Daycarebear or godaycare, but its location near me caught my eye and a quick Google search with the name in quotation marks turned up a simple webpage with very little information. It styled itself as an eco-friendly “green” daycare, so I figured that this would be at least once place that might accept cloth diapering.
When I called, though, I wasn’t encouraged. I had to repeat “cloth diaper” over the phone multiple times before she could understand what I was saying, and then she said that they used disposables, that by licensing standards she couldn’t put them in cloth. I explained that I would bring my own and take them away and have them washed independantly, and she had said that THAT would probably be doable. I didn’t feel encouraged, though.
The problem with talking to these daycare ladies over the phone has been the fact that all of them have been Iranian. If you know anyone from the Middle East or India, you know that their accent and manner of speech is often clipped and hurried, and over the phone especially it often comes across as abrupt or rude by English-speaking standards.
I had been put-off by the phone manners of all of these women, but charmed by their real life counterparts.
So I went to go see the “Green” daycare.
Daycare 4
Distance: Near Daycare one – so about a four minute drive.
Caretakers: One, a middle-aged lady with two young girls who make up some of her daycare space complement. She is Persian (like all of them – is this a cultural thing, this Persian-daycare thing?) but in person her English is excellent. She is a nurse who decided to start a daycare when she realized that it would cost over $2000 dollars a month to put her two kids in care while she worked. She was friendly, chatty, and clearly takes pride in her work. She said she might be getting help in the future so she could have a few more slots open up.
Details: Rates are negotiable but trend at $880-900/month for full time care, lunch and snacks included. There are currently five children attending, including her own two, one of whom will be going to school in the fall. Her own children are 5 and 8, there is a 16 month old, a 22 month old, and another toddler (I didn’t quite catch the age) who comes part time. This means that the daycare is quite full, and she isn’t even positive about whether she will have a space in September. She says she needs to talk to the licensing board – with one of her kids going to school, and one of the babies turning two, she thinks she will be able to take another baby but she isn’t sure.
The children are allowed free run of the house (supervised) but there is a play room, a back yard, and a kitchen attached to the play room. The lunch menus are posted on the wall, and they included a variety of cultural foods, such as chicken curry, black bean burrito, and sockeye salmon roll. She told me that the food is organic whenever possible and that none of it is pre-packaged. She enjoys cooking and likes to prepare meals from scratch. She doesn’t believe in serving juice – she serves milk or water, but she has taken to making mango fruit smoothies for them occasionally as a snack.
Everything was very clean, but she told me that she only used natural cleaning products – no chemicals.
I liked:
Practically everything.
The lady was friendly, outgoing, and exuded competence.
She not only had a cork board filled with policies, weekly menus and such, but she also had a beautifully bound policy manual, printed in colour with clip art images (which her 5 year old daughter insisted on describing to me in detail: “This is a man. This is a woman. This is a doctor. This is a flower and it’s growing in dirt. This is mommy’s Allah-book. This is mommy.”) and it covers EVERYTHING. It is like she sat down and thought of everything under the sun that could possibly be related to child care and put it in that manual. When I managed to tune out the five year old, I spotted a policy on custody papers in the case of divorced parents, a policy on reporting suspected physical or sexual abuse and what constituted each, and an informational section on poisonous bug bites.
She offered to email me a copy so I could read it more thoroughly.
They don’t watch tv.
“His father” she pointed at the 16 month old “doesn’t want him watching TV, so we don’t watch TV. My kids do sometimes, because they’re older, but I get them to go upstairs, and actually since we don’t watch it down here, my own kids often go the whole day without asking to watch any at all.”
She LOVED my cloth diapers. She had never heard of a diaper service and thought it was a great idea. She was amazed at the price, saying that she thought it was still cheaper than disposables, and loved how eco-friendly it was.
She is familiar with baby sign language since both of the toddlers use it at home. “It’s great, the parents showed me the signs, and it’s amazing. They communicate with me, and they’re just babies! I love it!”
She also speaks in Farsi to the children occasionally “because it is good for them to learn other languages.” I wish it were French, since that’s a national language here, but I agree with her that any language is good, and PH himself is learning a lot of Farsi, since he works in a Persian-heavy area (my area isn’t very heavily Persian at all, but apparently only Persians run day care here. Odd).
There have been no violations, but to be fair, there have been no inspections. She was just licensed less than a year ago.
This woman came across as so competent that I felt like I was inadequate by comparison, and that Babby would actually be better off with her than with me! I didn’t feel that there was a language barrier or a clash of priorities and expectations. I felt like we were on the same page. And she liked me, too, I could tell, mostly because I was patient with her obstreperous five year old.
I didn’t like:
She may not have space for me, and even if she does, she is going to need a committment from me, because her slot could fill up fast. I don’t know where I’ll be working or what my shifts will be, and she hit the nail on the head when she asked “So what if you don’t find a job in September?”
I could tell that she would take me in a heart beat if she could and if I could commit. But I’m worried that I may not find a job fast enough, even if she DOES have a spot open up.
(I’ve been job searching and job searching, but the only vets that are advertising are a) far away from me – an hour’s drive, almost – and b) vets who turned me down last year because of my pregnancy.
I plan on taking my resume around to every vet in the area in the hopes that some of them just aren’t advertising well.
But I’m scared. I need a job, and if I don’t find it fast I’m going to lose the best day care I have seen yet.)
Also, that five year old of hers was really something else. She started screaming when she saw me, “NO STRANGERS! I DON’T LIKE VISITORS NOOOOOOO!” and she hid in her room. Presently she came out and climbed all over her mother while her mother was trying to talk to me, insisting that her mother put her hair up in ribbons and then breaking into screams of rage when it didn’t meet her exacting standards. The mother was clearly frustrated with her and embarassed.
“I don’t know why she gets like this,” she told me, physically holding down the arms of the child, who had been flailing angrily at the approaching 16 month old, “she acts out for strangers lately.”
“She isn’t like this normally,” said the 8 year old seriously, shaking her head at her sister, “I don’t know what gets into her.”
On the one hand, I wasn’t impressed by her kid’s manners. On the other hand, it’s hard to judge someone based on the misbehaviour of their kid, because ALL kids misbehave occasionally and it often is calculated for the maximum embarrassment of the parent.
Also, at least she didn’t slap the kid or threaten her, although she also didn’t impose a time out or any other consequence other than speaking sternly and occasionally physically removing the child from a lap/from the other children.
Since I don’t have an obstreperous five year old, I’m not entirely sure what to make of that experience.
We never have date night on a weeknight, for all the reasons you mention here. It’s just no fun. So now you’ve learned that little lesson. As to Mr. Popper’s Penguins sucking, well, did you really expect it not too? Carol. *shakes head, tsk tsks*
Daycare # 3 I would eliminate right away because of the “TV during snacktime” thing. I’m sorry, mindless eating in front of the idiot box is just uncool. My family watches a very small amount of TV (after hours, so I’m not in any way against TV) – but the kids never watch it while eating. Talk about setting up a lifetime of bad habits! Nope nope nope. For you, TV is not negotiable. Done. Eliminate all daycares where TV is a scheduled part of the day. The end. It’s a dealbreaker for you and you don’t need to justify that to anyone.
Daycare # 4 does sound pretty dreamy, the five year old’s behaviour notwithstanding (and I wouldn’t necessarily make any judgments based on one incident. Kids have a rotten habit of behaving their absolute worst just when you need them to be good. (Although at five, I disagree with how she handled it – five is totally old enough to be told to leave the room until she can get ahold of herself. But parenting is a pretty personal thing, right?)
Here’s the thing – if she’ll hold the space for you with a deposit, and you want to be there, give her the deposit. If you lose it, you lose it… but when you *do* find a job, if you go back and find out that the possible space is gone for the sake of a small sum of money, you are going to be incredibly annoyed with yourself. And probably doubly dissatisfied with any other daycares you find at that time.
As far as how to deal with the places you don’t choose… speaking as the person on the other end of the phone, be direct and give your answer as soon as you can. If you know that a certain place isn’t going to work for you, call back ASAP and tell them. Until you say “no”, you are on their list of “possibles”, and they are acting accordingly. I can’t stand it when parents contact me, set up a meeting, and then just… never contact me again. It’s much more rude than hearing a simple “I don’t think it’s the right fit for me, but thank you for your time.”
I think you’re right – offering her a deposit or some other kind of compensation lest I have to back out might be worth doing.
The 5-year-old is being 5. You can TELL your kid all you want, but if they decide to act out with company around, they’re pretty much guaranteed you won’t follow through. Thus they love acting out in front of company. Sounds pretty minor to me, to be honest.
Glad you’ve had good-ish luck. Crossing my fingers for you on all fronts.
I think you’re right. She even called me last night to apologise again for her child’s behaviour. If the parent has the grace to be embarrassed, then I’m not concerned. It’s when the parent thinks their child’s ridiculous behaviour is normal or appropriate that I lose patience.
I’m sorry to hear about your anniversary. Hopefully the weekend one will be better!!
As for the daycare, I have to say that I think the fourth one is the best of the lot. I like the fact that this woman is a nurse and therefore knows what to do in an emergency situation. I like that she is eco-friendly and mindful. I like that because of ONE child’s parents not liking the idea that his child watch TV, that the entire household doesn’t have it on. She’s obviously sat down and discussed this with the parents to find out why they feel this way and has come to the conclusion that they are valid in their beliefs. I like that fact that the children get exposure to other cultures through language and food.
I say tell this woman that you will take the space. There would be nothing worse than telling her no because you don’t have a job, only to get a job and find that you have to settle for a daycare that you’re not totally comfortable about. Take care of this situations now, and everything else will fall into place. At least you can alleviate your anxiety about daycare for Babby and concentrate your efforts on job hunting.
As for the woman’s child acting out, I say it’s just a 5-year-old being a 5-year-old. I was always cautious to do anything more than raise my voice and talk sternly to Kylie when she acted out at that age in front of strangers, lest they think I was the Mother From Hell. Don’t use that situation to make your decision.
Good luck!!
I like all of that, too, and I like that she wasn’t AFRAID to announce to me that she spoke to the children in her language, fed them her food, and so on. She is clearly confident in her opinions and not afraid that I’m going to get all judgemental on her.
What does “commit” mean here? Do you have to pay money, sign a contract that it would cost further money to break? How many more places do you have scheduled to talk to? Perhaps you can negotiate with the lady and come up with something that takes your situation into account. If she likes you like you say, and I think that’s probably due to more than your patience, I think she appreciated your organized approach the way you did hers, then the two of you should be able to find some common ground.
Also if she is making room for you then the stakes are not quite as high for her, apart from the effort, etc. She is not missing out on other, cooler, more lucrative parents.
I don’t like all the violations. They all sound vaguely reminiscent of SVU. What do they mean, do you know? Arguably, they can’t have been that bad since the daycares are still open. I presume they’d be shut down if there was an outbreak of Ebola, or something. Was it daycare 2 that had a violation for not keeping proper files on staff? It seems like that would be a piece of cake if you run a place on your own….
As for the daughter’s behavior at daycare 4; perhaps you can schedule another interview or two and see?
“Commit” means telling her “yes, I will definitely be there with my child in September”. But of course, if I don’t find a job, I clearly won’t be, so I can’t commit.
If she holds a spot for me (and actually she called to tell me that she could make a spot for me if she hired a helper, so if she actually hires an extra person just to be able to care for my child) and then I back out, I’ve really screwed her over.
I like that some people are suggesting a deposit. I’ll see how she feels about that.
Number four does sound pretty great. And I agree that if the deposit isn’t too onerous, you should pay it. As was mentioned, if you get a job and the place is full, I’m sure you would be upset.
Regarding the job situation, are you morally opposed to the places that wouldn’t hire you when you were pregnant, or will they still not consider you? (Aren’t I the nosy parker?)
Second the question about previously applied for jobs.
Btw, you need a link to comment and to the comments at the bottom of each entry. Or of of them classic “To top” links.
Well, I’m a little pissed with the owners for rejecting me in the past, so I’m not eager to go down that road again. One of them I actually disliked. She seemed far too surprised when I told her that if a coworker made a mistake, and they never USUALLY made that mistake, that I wouldn’t get mad or kick up a fuss. She clearly thought I was a little weird for not expecting perfection from others 100% of the time.
@kagero – sorry, the theme comes as-is. I would have to pay wordpress money to edit my own CSS, and I’m far too poor for that.
I agree with the others — put down a deposit on daycare #4. She sounds great! (My only slight hesitation is the number of similarly-aged toddlers. I, personally, couldn’t handle that many almost-two-year-olds, but then again, I couldn’t handle doing daycare at all so take my opinion with a grain of salt. :P)
Yes, that’s the big problem with this place and that’s why she may not have a space. She’s only allowed so many babies at a time, and she’s not the kind of person to break regulations, I can tell. She is talking about hiring a helper if I decide to bring Babby to her, but obviously she’d need a commitment…
Hey, well, that’s up to her to take that chance and hire someone. But, if Babby doesn’t take that spot, I’m sure she’d pretty easily find another baby to fill it. So don’t sweat it!
Oh, and Happy Anniversary!!!
I agree with Kerry. There are far too many people looking for a care spots for their young baby. I cannot see it being an issue for her to fill the space if you discover you can’t do it.
I get a very good vibe that she had such a complete and comprehensive manual, etc. Shows that she is probably a careful, responsible, diligent person, who puts care and attention into details. That would be a very good thing in general. I also really like that she is the kind of person who would make being a green daycare her “thing”. Seems like it might be a good fit for you. At the least, the good feeling you had about her makes me think that the other ones you’ve seen so far are probably not right for you for the long term.
I’m betting the five-year-old is a little jealous, since the daycare situation wasn’t around since birth, and now there are a bunch of other children and parents that she’s forced to share the spotlight with.
Happy belated anniversary! Our three year is coming up next month. 🙂 I hope that both the job and daycare situation resolve smoothly for you very soon. I am confident that it will work itself out well whatever happens, though. I really am. You’ll find a good solution one way or another.
Sorry that your date-night wasn’t the best. At least you get another chance next year to celebrate your anniversary…
I think I love #4!
5 year-olds can be pretty arrogant, so I would be aware but not necessarily concerned about the manners issue – it could even be a good sign in that well-nurtured kids *know* they are loved no matter what.
This woman certainly seems to be on the ball and aware of what kids really need. The fact that she has written it all down is a definite plus in my book. Happy deciding. 🙂
Do you read It’s Not All Mary Poppins? (I *think* Pinkbrain/Jenn told me about her…) She’s a dayhome provider. Has some pretty fantastic insight. You’d like her post today: http://daycaredaze.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/ten-tips/
Never mind… I have a feeling YOU pointed her out! =)
I’ve definitely mentioned Daycare daze here a few times. Whether pinkbrain picked her up here or not, I don’t know. But she’s awesome. We’re good internet-friends.
I just wanted to point out (perhaps needlessly) that you’ve technically not found anything wrong with option #4. She’s not had any infractions, she doesn’t let the kids watch TV, etc. As a parent, this would be my first option over the other 3 for many reasons, but no infractions would cause this to rank high on my list. I know the money thing is an issue, but you’ve still got another 2 months to find work. It may not be that ethical, but if you got desperate, you could always take a job with a clinic you don’t necessarily like and keep looking for other positions. As long as housing, food and bills are covered in the interim, you’re good. I stick with my original suggestion and that is to pick this one and make it work for you.
It’s true. On the one hand, she hasn’t had any infractions because she hasn’t had any inspections, so it’s not quite fair to give her this over the ones that have been operating, say, for 20 years like Daycare 2. On the other hand, after speaking to this woman, you get the feeling that she would be HORRIFIED by an infraction. She seems very much the perfectionist. I like that.
Oh, I don’t like the sounds of #3 at all. “Pushy” just doesn’t do it for me. For that reason alone, I’d keep looking. (That’s absolutely, totally, 100% my own personal character bias speaking here. You may feel differently, but I HATE working with pushy people.)
Number 4 sounds amazing. In fact, I’m taking mental notes re: the manual, and I’d love more information about what was in it!
The rude five-year-old is an issue for me, because 1) that child is an example of the provider’s child-rearing skills, and, more immediately 2) I’d worry that she might be rejecting/unfriendly to Babby, and I’d wonder if, when parents aren’t around, the caregiver tolerates this sort of behaviour more than she should. (Which is not at all. Ahem.)
(If that sounds horribly judgmental, please bear in mind that I’m a caregiver with three children, who were two, five, and eight when I started providing daycare. I’m only applying to her the same standards I applied to myself and my kids. They were coached on how to behave during interviews: no interrupting, let mummy answer the questions unless the parent is speaking to them directly, use your good manners, that sort of thing. They certainly wouldn’t have been allowed to be as domineering as this child. And screaming tantrums? None of mine ever had one of those after age two. Really. I honestly find a five-year-old behaving like that shocking.)
However, because everyone can have an off day, I’d want to see her again. I wouldn’t explain that the daughter’s behaviour is why I wanted a second interview… but of course, it is! I’d want to know if that behaviour’s a one-off or not.
However, even if the child turns out to be a bit of a pill, everything else sounds wonderful, more than wonderful, and at five she’s going to be in school at least part of the day, right? Unless I were convinced she’d be treating my child badly, I wouldn’t let that be the deciding factor. It’s a factor, but there are a bunch of factors, and all the others sound so good!
If you still feel really good about this after the second interview, I’d offer her a deposit. (A month is a good solid amount, and displays your good will/honest intention — if you can afford it.)
My parents have offered to help with a deposit/to act as guarantours if I don’t find work right away, so hopefully that will help. She called me again the next day to apologize for her daughter’s behaviour, and told me that she liked me and would like to take Babby on, but that she’d need to hire a helper to do it.
It’s a coincidence that a daycare provider’s blog that I read regularly just happened to have a post on 10 Tips to for Choosing Childcare.
Hope this helps!
Was it Daycare Daze, with NotMaryP, who commented above? :-p
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