So, since I have difficulty relying on my own judgment alone, I am bringing a bunch of internet strangers into my decision process.
I went to see two daycares yesterday, and will see two more today.
Daycare One:
Distance: A four minute drive from my house
Caretakers: Two – a woman about my age and her mother, both Middle Eastern, possibly Persian.
Details: $900 a month for full time, lunches provided. Posted menu showed meals like chicken and rice, meatballs, macaroni and cheese, etc. The kids were sitting at a table snacking on strawberries and bananas when I arrived.
No contract, and they seem to have several spaces open so they were very “sure, whatever” when I told them that I wouldn’t know my hours or even whether I had work for a while.
Kids are all two-three, no babies currently. One of the kids (one of the only full timers there) has been there since he was a baby.
No outings, but a big yard to play in.
I liked:
No other babies, so Babby would have a stand-alone kind of status.
No rush to make a decision
Two caretakers in the household.
Unexpected drop ins allowed.
Latest inspection showed no violations.
I didn’t like:
Routine half an hour of TV a day before nap time.
Past inspections found the following violations:
| 202 | Physical Facility, Equipment & Furnishings “Structural or maintenance or state of repair” does not meet requirements.  |
| 205 | Policies & Procedures “Hazardous practice” observed. |
| 603 | Records & Reporting “Records regarding person in care” do not meet requirements. |
Daycare Two:
Distance: a ten minute drive from my house, but along a main road (not hidden up in the subdivisions).
Caretakers: One, a fifty year old woman with 20 years of experience. I thought she was Russian from her accent, but her name is also Persian. PH, who works with a lot of Farsi folks, says that she’s probably from Northern Iran.
Details: $900 a month for full time. Lunch is not provided. One space opening in September, when a three year old goes to preschool and one of the babies (there are several) graduates to toddler status. The lady said that she isn’t in a huge rush to fill the slot, because I’m coming in ahead of most other moms – she’s getting a lot of calls, but all for immediate care rather than care in the fall.
She does have a contract.
There is a big yard and a play set for the kids to play on, and a lot of toys in the house.
I liked:
The lady herself- she made a big fuss over Babby and spent ten minutes on the floor with him, showing him toys and applauding every little thing he did, before she even got around to discussing the daycare in general. She was warm and very chatty, telling me about how her car had been broken into recently. She has run her daycare for a long time and says she runs into old kids, now grown up, every now and then and that they get excited to see her and hug her.
No TV at all, except maybe as a rare treat. “TV is not good for them,” she said to me, frowning (I phrase the question: “how much TV do they get to watch a day?” so that I don’t give away my opinion on the subject, which is that TV is from the devil). “They have so much to play with, so much imagination. What do they need TV for?”
Parental drop-ins encouraged – she said that parents often worry about how their kid is doing and encourages them to come by, suggesting that they peek in the window so they can see their kid without their kid knowing that they are there.
She had to cut the interview short, because she had to go do something, but she encouraged me to call her with any questions and to come by again if I wanted.
I didn’t like:
This lady has never had a violation-free inspection. The lastest one (in May) showed:
| 202 | Physical Facility, Equipment & Furnishings “Structural or maintenance or state of repair” does not meet requirements. |
| 302 | Records & Reporting “Staff records” do not meet requirements. |
| 603 | Records & Reporting “Records regarding person in care” do not meet requirements. |
Past inspections have come up with:
| 203 | Hygiene & Communicable Disease Control “Sanitation or housekeeping” does not meet requirements. |
| 204 | Physical Facility, Equipment & Furnishings “Storage practices of hazardous materials” does not meet requirements. |
| 501 | Policies & Procedures Policies & procedures to guide staff action regarding “behavioral or discipline” issues is not appropriate; or not implemented. |
| 502 | Policies & Procedures Policies & procedures to guide staff action regarding “emergency or risk management” issues is not appropriate; or not implemented. |
| 603 | Records & Reporting “Records regarding person in care” do not meet requirements. |
and more.
—
Both daycares had never heard of using cloth diapers before. The second lady said that no one had posed her with this question in her 20 years of care. The first daycare the older woman had clearly used them before, and she waved away her daughter’s confused expression.
Both daycares were cautiously open to trying them, but clearly thought I was nuts.
“Is… he allergic to disposables?” the first lady asked me, baffled.
Maybe I should say that he is.
I have two more interviews today…
Boy, this is stressful.
What do you guys think?
Oh, and it’s our third anniversary today. We’re going to go to a movie after PH gets off of work. Yay!
I would go with #1. But gut instinct means SO much more than reading stats, you know? Plus I feel like 1 caregiver for multiple kids can be a bit crazy. And I am not a crazy anti-TV nazi. 🙂
I am, unfortunately :-p
The TV might really be a dealbreaker for me. I feel like if I’m paying them to care for my kid, they shouldn’t be plunking him in front of a tv, especially since pediatricians recommend NO TV for kids under two…
I sort of agree with @Jessica … but you still have more choices to try out.
It might be hard to find a place where they NEVER watch TV. You may want to ask more questions like kind of TV, do they watch with the kiddos, do they talk about it, etc.
Well, the second place didn’t, and thankfully I found another place yesterday that was also no TV. After all, a school wouldn’t do it, right?
Ok, so I have no real input, but I’m watching to see what you learn, as I might have to jump through all these horrible hoops some time soon. Although I’m guessing in my wee mountain town, some of the issues might be a little different.
Yes, maybe. My biggest issue that I’m running into is language/culture barriers.
I think Daycare Two sounds promising despite the violations. Is there any way you could find out exactly what the violations were. The last one could be something as simple as not having an up-to-date shot record for one of the children which is as much a responsibility of the parents as the daycare provider. Maybe a maintenance violation is a lightbulb that wasn’t changed. There is no such thing as a violation free daycare because the standards are so high, which is as it should be. What does your gut tell you?
I could ask her about them. She did say I could call with any questions…
How do their references check out? On the face of it – even with the violations – I’d go with # 2. The fact that she talked with Babby first is a big thumbs-up in my book. And tnzed hit the nail right on the head; without more specifics about those violations, the information provided is so vague as to be nearly useless. I don’t know what the regs call for in BC but out here, proper record-keeping includes writing down naps, food eaten at snacks & lunch time (which you’d know anyway, since you’re providing food) and all diaper changes for each kid. Some days, that’s just not practical. Just an example!
That # 1 routinely uses TV to calm them down before naps (instead of, say, reading to them for half an hour instead) wouldn’t be a deal-breaker necessarily, but it does make me raise my eyebrows a bit.
However, I wouldn’t make any decisions until I’d talked to their references.
I agree. The fact that she seemed so warm and nurturing was a big thumbs up in my books.
I would say wait and see what else you see. The 30 minutes of TV is a bit weird, never heard of a daycare letting kids watch TV before. Don’t let the cloth diapers be the deciding factor for you. Chances are most WON’T be open to the idea (I have many friends who CD but had to giveit up for daycare). My SIL works at a daycare and they said they would gladly do it (but not wash them, which is to be expected) but then the parents decided to go with disposables instead.
Happy Anniversary! Have fun, on your date!
The more I think about it, the more I think that the CD thing is a deal breaker for me, too.
First of all, I pay for a service and I don’t want to fork out for disposable diapers on top of that.
Secondly, the whole “kids potty train faster if they are in cloth” thing would probably be wrecked if he was spending most days in disposables.
We’ll see…
I agree instincts mean more than reading stats. However, there were a few concerns that I had as a parent that would make me think twice about each daycare. The first one (what with all the TV) would have me reconsidering dropping my kids off there. When Kylie was Babby’s age, she wasn’t allowed to partake in ANY TV watching. I was very clear on that fact when I was looking for daycare, too. I was lucky to find a satellite daycare that was monitored and affiliated with the local daycare specifically for infants and toddlers.
I would have concerns about daycare number 2 as well. “Policies & procedures to guide staff action regarding “behavioral or discipline” issues is not appropriate; or not implemented.” This makes me think that she may be using corporal punishment on small children OR that, if the child has behaved badly, they are left in a playpen to cry. Or something equally horrible. I have personally run into an situation with one of the providers when Kylie was a pre-schooler where the daycare person used corporal punishment as a means to correct bad behaviour (without telling me). I picked Kylie up from daycare one day, and when I got her home I found that there was a very clean hand print on her behind. When I called the daycare provider to ask what the hell had happened, she told me that when she told Kylie to stop jumping on the bed (that was shared by two other children) and she didn’t stop fast enough, so she was given a swat on the bum. That left a HAND PRINT for TWO DAYS. I’ve haven’t forgiven myself for placing my child in that kind of a situation and I don’t think I ever will. At least Kylie was old enough and had the vocabulary to tell me what had happened, whereas Babby is still only little and has no proper way of communicating.
Also “Policies & procedures to guide staff action regarding “emergency or risk management” issues is not appropriate; or not implemented.” This makes me wonder what kind of emergency or risk management situation happened where this woman did not take the appropriate action.
Does this woman have any other caretaker in the house with her, or is it just her and the children? The ratio of daycare worker to children would have me wondering if she’s capable of handling all the work.
Wait to make a decision until you’ve seen the other two places and then weigh them all based on the information you’ve got.
I’d forgotten about that experience of yours – SO SCARY.
I have been asking them what their discipline methods are, but haven’t gotten any really formal answers. Mostly redirection and talking-tos, according to the workers. But of course, what they say and what they do could be different!
Oh yeah…And happy anniversary!!!!
Thanks! 😀
happy anniversary!
and regarding daycare i would also like to know more about the violations – what went wrong exactly? can you ask the daycares for a report or some input? their reaction to your question could also be an indicator of what daycare to pick.
I think I will!
Well, if it were my babby (Hey great! No labor with it’s risks of pooping on the delivery table):
My gut says #1, mainly because of the sheer volume of complaints against #2. I’ve worked in the food industry and I know how picky and particular and impossible to please regulators are.
But man, that seemed like A LOT of violations.
I think the willingness to use cloth diapers makes up for the TV in the case of #1, and two caretakers definitely seem better than one. For some reason the multiple-generational aspect is alluring to me as well.
My mother (surprisingly, since she’s usually a bit of a worrier) had the same reaction re:stringent standards. She said “I bet it’s almost impossible to meet EVERY little thing.”
But it is a LOT of violations.
Hi and happy anniversary!
My instinct would be to go with #2 because of her response to Babby/lack of tv/reassurance for parents. I am a bit of an anti-paperwork person and think that kids need germs and danger so all those violations wouldn’t stress me out too much. (Probably our house would get the same sort of report! LOL)
I agree – I have to say, hygiene standards bother me far less than TV!
Just going on what you’ve posted here, I’d feel more comfortable with number 2, but would try to ask about the violations. I think we live in an overly strict country when it comes to many issues of safety and security, and so I suspect it wouldn’t be hard to get a violation. But…I would still ask. Any good caregiver would understand why a parent would want specific info, and I think judging by her response you may have a better sense of her.
(and happy anniversary!)
Thanks!
Happy Anniversary!
I, too, would want to know more about the violations. And I’m curious how you felt about each of the places you went. When we started looking at daycares, at the first I saw I was a bit surprised by the dirt, and the level of bickering/unhappiness amongst the children present at the time. At the daycare we ended up with, the babies’ (age up to 2 years) room was filled with amazingly calm babies. Their max limit is 10 babies (with at least two staff present, with that many babies), and it’s a testament to the woman in charge of the room that the place is so calm, with babies so happy (for the most part), and it’s always clean. There are other staff who work in the room at times, but the happy/calm vibe that I feel is largely due to the one in charge. 🙂
So, how did the places you visit make you feel, physically?
Good luck!
Good question – the vibe in both places was fine, but I didn’t see the kids at the second place. She asked me to come after hours so she could focus on me and Babby. That concerned me originally, but she was so encouraging about parents dropping by and such during her hours that I don’t think she was trying to hide anything.
I prefer to meet with the parent(s) and kid once after hours, and then again during the workday for a playdate. She’s right – some days it would be impossible to focus on the parent while everyone else is here. If you’re considering her, I would ask for a second visit during business hours so you can see her in action, and also see how the other kids are with Babby.
I think she would be fine with that.
Hmmmmm…. Well, given these just two choices, I’d be more comfortable with #1.
Yes, the way #2 interacted so nicely with Babby speaks volumes. But so do all those violations. Yikes. I agree that some of these might be just silly, little picky things. (My friend just started a daycare in her home that’s associated with our family resource centre on base, and one of their requirements was to have “No Smoking” signs up in each entrance and also in the bathroom. She drew the line at the bathroom because, come on! Really? A parent is going to not only use her bathroom but try to secretly smoke up there?!? Yeah, the chances of THAT are slim to none. But, if she were inspected, that would likely be a violation. Just an example of something I personally consider unimportant.) However, violations regarding discipline and risk management would have me very nervous. I totally agree with Maeghan on those.
Regarding tv, half an hour seems to me a pretty small amount of screen time. I think Babby will survive that. After all, he HAS watched hockey games with Dad, right. 😉 (Personally, I was quite pleased that Liam never paid a bit of attention to tv until he was about 18 months old, but I also think it hasn’t hurt him either. He’s learned a lot about letters and rhyming, for example, from tv shows. And it doesn’t seem to make him more hyper or have a negative effect on his behavior or imagination, so I’m okay with it. But I realize not everyone is. Still, 30 minutes isn’t too bad, and if you’re concerned, you could maybe ask them to interact with Babby while it’s on? Like read him a book or something? It might also be their bit of “downtime” to get lunch cleaned up, or whatever. I don’t know.)
As for the cloth diapers, I’d just emphasize that you’ll provide a zippered wetbag to put the dirty ones in to come home with you rather than put in the trash, and it’s otherwise no different than using disposables, except maybe the need to change more frequently. (I can’t remember if your diapers have a stay-dry lining or not.)
Hopefully #3 or #4 will be so outstanding that you won’t have a tough decision to make. Good luck!
I wouldn’t mind half and hour of tv if he were older – two or three – but at age one I really feel like it’s just a placebo. Studies show that babies THAT young can’t learn anything from tv. Baby Einstein videos and such don’t teach them anything. I’m thinking that if your kids did learn letters and such from tv as babies, it was because you were talking and pointing and interacting with them as they watched. So really they learned it from you, and the TV was just a tool.
But you’re right that I could tell them I didn’t want him watching tv. There’s two of them. Surely one of them could take Babby into the bedroom with a book instead.
Oh, no! I meant LATER Liam learned those things from tv, like at two-and-a-half to three! (I certainly don’t have a genius on my hands. :P)
I agree that there’s no need to have babies watch tv (and I’m kind of appalled that there are whole Baby CHANNELS out there), but I’m not sure having it on AROUND them is that harmful. Now, if they were plunking a kid in front of the tv in some sort of seat so the baby had nothing else to do or look at, well, that would be different. But if Babby was, say, playing with some blocks in the same room as the tv was on and happened to watch little bits here and there over a thirty minute span, I think he’d be okay. Just my opinion. 😉
I’m very tired at the moment, so haven’t taken the time to read any of the comments. If I’m repeating everyone, sorry!
I’m curious about the violations. Do they give any more information than what you’ve quoted, because what you’ve quoted is really vague. “Structural or maintenance or state of repair does not meet requirements.” What does that mean? That tells you nothing useful. Does it mean she uses the wrong band of outlet-plug, or that there are no gates to dangerous stairs? “Does not meet requirements” could be serious, or it could be bureaucratic piffle. (I’m guessing few homes — yours and mine included! — would pass without a violation. I’m sure they err on the side of caution.) So you need more information on this.
From the information you’ve provided, it’s clear that you’re way more comfortable with #two, and for that reason, it’s the better choice for you. You can check tangible items off a list, but all things being equal, it’s the intangibles that usually tip the scales. However, two daycares is not enough. You need to check out some more before you make a decision! Typically the parents who sign with me have checked out four or five, some have been to more.
Nope, they don’t give any further details. I could ask, if it came to that. She *might* tell me.
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